Comments for Alex McLean http://yaxu.org Making music with text Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:12:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 Comment on There must be no generative, procedural or computational art by Robert Jackson http://yaxu.org/there-must-be-no-generative-procedural-or-computational-art/comment-page-1/#comment-92542 Robert Jackson Sat, 14 Jan 2012 16:12:39 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=850#comment-92542 Firstly, I don't think theres any need to abandon the term 'computational art' it still serves a purpose. 'Computer art' risks placing unnecessary filters for art on a device called a 'computer' and emphasising it's differences from other objects; 'computational art' simply describes the execution of given rule in a formal system from initial conditions, subject to more input. Secondly, there is also the issue of human reducibility. Humans construct and look after computational processes, certainly. But to suggest that they are thoroughly reducible to human interaction, risks placing human values onto an independent process where nothing 'human' can be found. This is something that Joseph Weizenbaum repeatedly stated, although I wouldn't endorse his reliance to differentiate human agency from computer agency by a factor of 'choice'. Firstly, I don’t think theres any need to abandon the term ‘computational art’ it still serves a purpose. ‘Computer art’ risks placing unnecessary filters for art on a device called a ‘computer’ and emphasising it’s differences from other objects; ‘computational art’ simply describes the execution of given rule in a formal system from initial conditions, subject to more input.

Secondly, there is also the issue of human reducibility. Humans construct and look after computational processes, certainly. But to suggest that they are thoroughly reducible to human interaction, risks placing human values onto an independent process where nothing ‘human’ can be found. This is something that Joseph Weizenbaum repeatedly stated, although I wouldn’t endorse his reliance to differentiate human agency from computer agency by a factor of ‘choice’.

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by Jamie Bullock http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-92243 Jamie Bullock Fri, 13 Jan 2012 10:29:28 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-92243 I broadly agree with you about procedural thinking not being 'the answer', but this shouldn't be either/or, but rather if/then/else. I'm inclined to think that pre-16 CS provision should be seen as an 'entry point', exposing the students to a wide range of possibilities and allowing broad scope for flexibility for both students and tutors. There should be a large proportion of project work, with teacher-as-facilitator. If some students want to work in Scratch, and others in JavaScript... let's support that. Indeed, choice and appropriateness of language to the chosen project should be part of the assessment criteria. I broadly agree with you about procedural thinking not being ‘the answer’, but this shouldn’t be either/or, but rather if/then/else. I’m inclined to think that pre-16 CS provision should be seen as an ‘entry point’, exposing the students to a wide range of possibilities and allowing broad scope for flexibility for both students and tutors. There should be a large proportion of project work, with teacher-as-facilitator. If some students want to work in Scratch, and others in JavaScript… let’s support that. Indeed, choice and appropriateness of language to the chosen project should be part of the assessment criteria.

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by Alex http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91768 Alex Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:16:33 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91768 Nice one Kate, seems like your piece could be framed as live coding: http://toplap.org/index.php/Live_Coding_Without_Computers Nice one Kate, seems like your piece could be framed as live coding: http://toplap.org/index.php/Live_Coding_Without_Computers

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by sicchio http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91764 sicchio Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:06:49 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91764 "The problem with this view is that thinking of problems in terms of sequences of abstract operations is only one way of thinking about programming languages." - I find this quite interesting as I am currently creating a dance piece about this. It starts with a series of instructions that the performer must execute but slowly the performer subverts this to create their own movement. “The problem with this view is that thinking of problems in terms of sequences of abstract operations is only one way of thinking about programming languages.” – I find this quite interesting as I am currently creating a dance piece about this. It starts with a series of instructions that the performer must execute but slowly the performer subverts this to create their own movement.

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by Infovore » Links for January 11th http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91739 Infovore » Links for January 11th Wed, 11 Jan 2012 16:00:15 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91739 [...] Computational thinking « Alex McLean "If school programming languages that serve children best end up looking quite a bit different from conventional programming languages, maybe it’s actually the conventions that need changing." Several good points from Alex, and some good points about breaking away from equating "computational" with "procedural". (tags: computation education code programming ) [...] [...] Computational thinking « Alex McLean "If school programming languages that serve children best end up looking quite a bit different from conventional programming languages, maybe it’s actually the conventions that need changing." Several good points from Alex, and some good points about breaking away from equating "computational" with "procedural". (tags: computation education code programming ) [...]

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by Alex http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91738 Alex Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:48:55 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91738 Hi mkb, actually I don't know where I am on the spectrum (in the sense that it is a spectrum we all are *somewhere* on it), and would generally not be in favour of overtly classifying people or medicalising areas of the spectrum without a clear need, so share your concerns. I suspect though I am atypical, in that I am able to engage fully with programming languages for hours on end and am perhaps not as engaged with wider society as I would like. So the above is meant to be in the spirit of a white middle aged male, working in a computer science department, wondering if my kind could perhaps engage wider society more fully with the wonder of computation. I can see how my post could be read the other way though so I'll edit it a little. Hi mkb, actually I don’t know where I am on the spectrum (in the sense that it is a spectrum we all are *somewhere* on it), and would generally not be in favour of overtly classifying people or medicalising areas of the spectrum without a clear need, so share your concerns.

I suspect though I am atypical, in that I am able to engage fully with programming languages for hours on end and am perhaps not as engaged with wider society as I would like. So the above is meant to be in the spirit of a white middle aged male, working in a computer science department, wondering if my kind could perhaps engage wider society more fully with the wonder of computation.

I can see how my post could be read the other way though so I’ll edit it a little.

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by mkb http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91735 mkb Wed, 11 Jan 2012 15:28:23 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91735 To me it comes across as ableist, sort of like "if only those damn aspies didn't control everything, programming would be better". I don't know if you're on the spectrum which obviously would affect my interpretation, but generally when I hear any mention of autism or Asperger's in the computing field it's something along the lines "damn aspie devs not understanding anything except programming". On re-examination, maybe that speaks to the company I keep. To me it comes across as ableist, sort of like “if only those damn aspies didn’t control everything, programming would be better”.

I don’t know if you’re on the spectrum which obviously would affect my interpretation, but generally when I hear any mention of autism or Asperger’s in the computing field it’s something along the lines “damn aspie devs not understanding anything except programming”. On re-examination, maybe that speaks to the company I keep.

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by Alex http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91723 Alex Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:57:14 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91723 Hi mkb, Could you be a bit more specific with your objection? Being atypical is not necessarily a bad thing, indeed I think being neurotypical would be an unfortunate state to be in. However if the entire practice of programming is controlled by a particular group of people exhibiting particular traits, then we have problems... Hi mkb,

Could you be a bit more specific with your objection? Being atypical is not necessarily a bad thing, indeed I think being neurotypical would be an unfortunate state to be in. However if the entire practice of programming is controlled by a particular group of people exhibiting particular traits, then we have problems…

]]> Comment on There must be no generative, procedural or computational art by There must be no generative, procedural or computational art « Alex McLean | Symmorphmetry http://yaxu.org/there-must-be-no-generative-procedural-or-computational-art/comment-page-1/#comment-91715 There must be no generative, procedural or computational art « Alex McLean | Symmorphmetry Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:28:09 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=850#comment-91715 [...] There must be no generative, procedural or computational art « Alex McLean Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...] [...] There must be no generative, procedural or computational art « Alex McLean Like this:LikeBe the first to like this post. [...]

]]> Comment on Computational thinking by mkb http://yaxu.org/computational-thinking/comment-page-1/#comment-91713 mkb Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:24:16 +0000 http://yaxu.org/?p=865#comment-91713 I don't think you're wrong in general, but this is shitty: "the traditional group who tend to be atypical on the autistic spectrum, and who have overwhelmed the programming language design community for far too long." I don’t think you’re wrong in general, but this is shitty:
“the traditional group who tend to be atypical on the autistic spectrum, and who have overwhelmed the programming language design community for far too long.”

]]>