Yes the core of pd is BSD, but some parts of the library are GPL, which RJDJ have had to replace with their own GPLv3 code (i.e., rjlib), which despite being ‘free’ they can’t accept patches for, otherwise they can’t use it on the iphone.

The GPL is _kind of_ compatible with iphone development as long as you own the code and so can license it to apple under a different license. That’s the firewall I was talking about.

Yes the smule case does sound very similar, I didn’t know about that, thanks. Interesting that another free software project is being subverted in that way. For that to be legal, the ported chuck would not have accepted any patches back under the GPL it is distributed under… A rather non-free use of a free license.

Secondly, it seems GPL would not be compatible with iPhone development since Apple imposes many restrictions on software distribution and ones ability to compile and run software freely.

Apple doesn’t allow user applications to use their own or 3rd party dynamic libraries on the iPhone so software licensed under LGPL may not be able to use the limited dynamic library loophole to avoid the conditions of the general GPL. It seems LGPL falls back to GPL on the iPhone.

Another interesting and related case is that of Smule who sell a number of popular multi-million-dollar selling iPhone apps based on the GPL-licensed library ChucK. These apps, of course, have not been released as GPL open source, nor has the iPhone port of ChucK. They are considered proprietary. One of the founders of the venture-funded Smule is one the authors of ChucK. So Smule must have a special proprietary license for ChucK from the co-author and from Princeton University (where ChucK was originally developed a number of years ago).

Agree 100% with that, Dave. It’s a trend I really hope continues. One thing that worries me is a few long standing bastions of proprietary territory, like Flash. Why hasn’t Gnash killed Flash yet? That worries me slightly.

Is there any difference between this and Microsoft’s proposed signed binaries which everyone slammed? Is it really just that this is is on a slim shiny sexy computer pretending to be a phone, so it doesn’t seem to matter as much?

On runme.org, I’m really interested to see how this plays out, I think that we can say that the pattern so far in computing is that the proprietary closed methods generate a lot of noise, but lose out in the long term to the open standardised alternatives.

Ade: OK interesting, still not free software according to the defines of the FSF, I know that’s not your point though. Cryptographically signed software from trusted sources is the norm in linux distros, and keeping it up to date is easy, you just click ‘install updates’ when it tells you to. You can trust Apple, I can trust Canonical. Also yep, code DRM is a bit different from content DRM but is still DRM.

Dave: Interesting take on things. I feel a bit sad that the fledgling software art community around http://runme.org/ has seemingly been so swamped by a closed platform.

If I understand correctly, they completely control who can develop for their devices. This is not unusual, games console makers have done this for decades, the crucial difference is that it’s only recently that they’ve tried to open them up to the public – for instance xna on the xbox is the same deal as the iphone iirc.

I think they’ve done this because things like open source and the home brew dev scene have shown that there is an awful lot of creativity out there and they want (probably more accurately, need) a bit of this action.

This is simply the only way they can get this action while still maintaining control. Maintaining the control is probably the only way the people with the vision could get it past the people with the suits.

I don’t think apple/etc are evil, I don’t have beef with corporations (worked for one for too long!), but I don’t like the assumption that you don’t truly own a machine in the way that you can’t take it apart and figure out how it works without breaking the law. We can argue about the degree to which this is true with the iphone, but its part of that trend, and it sucks for so many reasons.

When free software gets embroiled with all this stuff, it’s called tivoization isn’t it?

You’re right – the malicious code argument is somewhat of a red herring, but I can see that developer certificates create a traceable chain of authenticity for any code that would be executed. Also, calling it DRM seems a little inaccurate – yes, it is the same technology that iTunes used to prevent theft of purchased music (FairPlay) but it’s being used for a different purpose here, to ensure that those that write software can be held responsible for their actions and preventing unsigned code from being executed. Given that writing code is a powerful act (something often overlooked), I think there is justifiable cause. Question is, can Apple be trusted to oversee and manage this process?

Oh yeah, one more thing… the reason you don’t get malicious code on your linux laptop is because you know what you’re doing! The knowledge and understanding you personally have isn’t something you can expect of a large consumer base who are primarily motivated by wow-factor and love of product design. Different marketplace, different goalposts. Apple are just trying to protect their customers.

Well, not anymore unhappy, since I left the project. Have we met? :-)

“using the GPLv3 as a firewall to protect commercial interests on a closed platform”

Wow, it sounds like you missed a couple of trains here.

They don’t even pay attention to obvious copyright / trademark infringement!

They don’t do any basic static analysis of your object code, even to check for private symbols, and they never have your source code. They don’t even take the obvious step of having some APIs be actually private, or implement real NX protection (you could jump outside your signed code).